Article:
Seas Turn to Acid as They Soak Up CO2
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/05-0
Background:
What is ocean acidification?
http://www.obs-vlfr.fr/LOV/EPOCA/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=14&Itemid=39
"if CO2 continues to be released on current trends, ocean average pH will reach 7.8 by the end of this century, corresponding to 0.5 units below the pre-industrial level, a pH level that has not been experienced for several millions of years (1). A change of 0.5 units might not sound as a very big change, but the pH scale is logaritmic meaning that such a change is equivalent to a three fold increase in H+ concentration. All this is happening at a speed 100 times greater than has ever been observed during the geological past. Several marine species, communities and ecosystems might not have the time to acclimate or adapt to these fast changes in ocean chemistry"
What’s the likely impact/cost? What’s percentage of current human consumption comes from the oceans?
When will we reach the point where it’s time to start globally reducing drivers of climate change such as greenhouse gases and black soot?
What are possible and prudent responses? Can we afford to leave China and India out of greenhouse gas and black carbon emissions controls?
Second International Symposium on the Ocean in a High CO2 World
http://www.obs-vlfr.fr/LOV/EPOCA/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=68&Itemid=36
jim z – yes, the article mentioned that the gas is volcanic in origin. The recent injection of CO2 there makes that a useful place to study acidification. Do you understand now?
Do you dispute that the oceans are acidifying dramatically? As a geologist this should be right up your alley, and you should be able to provide ample evidence to back up your claim that there’s nothing to worry about.
johnnie b – Thanks for the good news, I guess we can tell all those scientists at the symposium in Monaco today that they can go home. Why don’t you do that, and let us know what they say?
jim z – Thanks for the link to the information from Zeebe. It says the following:
"On time scales shorter than ~1000 yrs, the natural reservoirs that exchange carbon with the ocean are the atmosphere (pre-anthropogenic inventory ~600 Pg C), the biosphere (~550 Pg C), and soils (~1,500 Pg C) and thus the oceanic inventory of ΣCO2 (~38,000 Pg C) can be considered essentially constant. Exceptions to this are potential rapid carbon inputs from otherwise long-term storage reservoirs. Examples are the current combustion of fossil fuel carbon by humans…"
Here’s Zeebe’s work paraphrased:
"The pre-industrial pH of the
ocean (~ 8.1) was the result of
a long-term balance among
carbonate shell formation
by marine organisms, supply
of dissolved bicarbonate by
rivers, deposition of carbonate
sediments on the seabed,
and dissolution of carbonate
sediments (Ridgwell and
Zeebe, 2005). The input of CO2
to the ocean is changing this
balance, driving ocean pH
lower and creating more acidic
(less alkaline) oceans."
CO2 emissions and climate change: ocean impacts and adaptation issues
http://staff.acecrc.org.au/ace-notes/PA02acidification.pdf
Would you like to offer a scientist who is coming to conclusions that you do not find despicable?
Taken as a collection, this is probably the most chemically ignorant set of answers I have seen, from the people who claim the natural pH of the ocean should be neutral to those who claim there is no way that atmospheric CO2 can affect ocean surface pH on short timescales. Congratulations to all of you so far.
There is nothing that can be done to compensate for ocean acidification due to increasing atmospheric CO2 aside from lowering atmospheric CO2 concentrations. On the plus side, given a few thousand years or so enough carbonate rock will weather to bring ocean pH back to around 8.3 (which is the endpoint of titrating calcium/magnesium carbonate with carbonic acid).
September 30th, 2009 at 1:41 am
woah, there are a ton of questions in there.
References :
September 30th, 2009 at 2:30 am
Tums soaks up excess acid. Dump Tums in the ocean. In an emergency any flavor will do.
References :
September 30th, 2009 at 2:44 am
I would suggest that you stop worrying about every scare scenario that comes along.
The article said:
‘The waters are like a Jacuzzi – there is so much carbon dioxide fizzing up from the seabed,’ said Dr Jason Hall-Spencer, of Plymouth University. ‘Millions of litres of gas bubble up every day.’
This CO2 must be volcanic in origin and is extremely local. To assume or intentionally suggest (the author not you) that it is from the human CO2 is either ignorant or despicable (or both). There is a lake in Africa that has volcanic CO2 stored up until it sometimes fizzes up and sometimes kills many people. CO2 is much more soluable in cold deep water. If water that was saturated with CO2 flowed into warmer shallower waters, it might release CO2 as well.
The ocean has many times the pH as the atmosphere. There are buffers in the ocean governing the pH levels. The pH levels are perfectly stable but assumptions of significant increases in pH due to human emissions of CO2 are rediculous in my opinion. (edit: oops I meant to say they weren’t perfectly stable)
Note: Well now I understand. IT was as I stated, an exaggeration and despicable. Do you understand now? I doubt it. That is about as credible as going to Venus and suggesting this is where we are headed. There is no lower limit for alarmism to sink to apparently.
Note: In fact warming water precipitates CaCO3 (guess what that C is?) It is carbon. Calcite constantly precipitates in the ocean. There are beaches of chemically precipitated calcite in Bermuda for example. Here is a link that suggests there is 60 times the CO2 dissolved in the ocean than pre Industrial Atmosphere (or something to that effect) and discusses the buffering of the ocean to acidity.
http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/oceanography/faculty/zeebe_files/Publications/ZeebeWolfEnclp07.pdf
YOu will notice that you have not provided a number for how much CO2 humans have produced has increased the acidity. I understand that laymen hear the word acid and they think, Oh my, we are all going to die. In fact everything with a pH under 7 is acidic. It doesn’t sound as dire if you say less alkaline. The bottom line is that effects of acidification are grossly exaggerated. You have to learn to read between the lines in these sorts of studies. You do the math. I am not worried about it in the slightest. I think all scientist that seek to scare people for no reason except additional funding and notoriety are despicable. The link I gave throws the typical bones to global warming but I wouldn’t call their conclusions despicable.
References :
September 30th, 2009 at 2:51 am
WRONG > U do not need to be a chemist to know that if & put salt into corbinated water it will release all the CO2.Plants must have COt to recycle to oxygen. If we do it your way we all die.
References :
September 30th, 2009 at 2:58 am
7.0 is neutral and the oceans are over 8.0 on pH right now which for a saltwater fish tank is dangerously alkaline and needs Co2 added to bring it into balance. What is being added to the oceans to make them so alkaline.
References :
September 30th, 2009 at 3:15 am
1. Iron Fertilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization
2. Many tons of crushed limestone (grind up the coral reefs)
References :
September 30th, 2009 at 3:39 am
Taken as a collection, this is probably the most chemically ignorant set of answers I have seen, from the people who claim the natural pH of the ocean should be neutral to those who claim there is no way that atmospheric CO2 can affect ocean surface pH on short timescales. Congratulations to all of you so far.
There is nothing that can be done to compensate for ocean acidification due to increasing atmospheric CO2 aside from lowering atmospheric CO2 concentrations. On the plus side, given a few thousand years or so enough carbonate rock will weather to bring ocean pH back to around 8.3 (which is the endpoint of titrating calcium/magnesium carbonate with carbonic acid).
References :
Chapter 3, Stumm and Morgan, Aquatic Chemistry, 2nd Ed., Wiley
September 30th, 2009 at 3:58 am
Pretty simple answer – stop increasing atmospheric CO2 by burning fossil fuels.
Whether or not you believe AGW, there’s no question that humans are increasing atmospheric CO2.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=87
And there’s no question that this is causing the ocean to acidify, and there’s no question that this acidification is killing coral reefs which are the habitat of millions of aquatic species.
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1847
So regardless of your beliefs with regards to AGW, this is one of many other reasons why we need to reduce our fossil fuel consumption. There’s also the fact that fossil fuels are a limited resource, that they’re concentrated mainly in unfriendly political regions, that burning them emits other harmful byproducts besides CO2, etc. etc.
References :
September 30th, 2009 at 4:21 am
Try and keep the emission under control.
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September 30th, 2009 at 4:38 am
Dont swim in it.
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September 30th, 2009 at 5:12 am
(gcnp58), did a decent job of explaining. There was some key points missing however that doesn’t really effect anything other then, volume, and a mole to mole ratio. Another misconception is that calcium carbonate disappears…it doesn’t and will recombine. So trying to understand how much buffering material is required has left many unanswered questions.
One of your links suggested this has never occurred before. It has during the PETM(Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum) or about 55 million years ago. A 2005 study suggest that at least 4,000 billion tons of carbon would be needed for this to occur…or all the fossil fuel reserves burnt over the next three centuries.
ed: the second part of his statement is referring to Henry’s Law. But then your going to assume the concentrate is purely CO2…?
http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0833619.html
References :
just enough chemistry to understand the basics.